It really is sickening to me to see all of these things happen. People just don't take driving seriously. It will never happen, but I wish they would make Alcohol illegal like a narcotic. Drinking serves no purpose, not even for a responsible drinker. But the stiff penalties are obviously not stiff enough. It just makes me sick!!!
Drinking used to be illegal but it was kind of a bust as far as effectively inhibiting drinking goes. Stiff penalties won't help much in preventing it. Punishment is just not a very effective means of curtailing behavior. We, our society, tend to equate punishment with justice, but that is not often the case. Punishment, in the psychological use of the word, prevents or decreases a behavior from occurring again. But once the punishment is through being implemented, the behavior tends to occur again so long as there is a perceived reward for pursuing the activity. Putting people in jail, fines, etc. are all punishments to the extent that they curtail behavior, but people will often return to the behavior once the punishment is over with (out of jail) or out of mind (if you haven't had a speeding ticket in a while). We could stiffen penalties to the point of the death penalty or life imprisonment for drinking and driving, but would that be just? As with so many ills of society the answer most fully lies in the doctrines and principles of the gospel. As these are taken into individual lives people change their behavior. Drinking is an obvious outward behavior that is harmful, but we all have harmful behavior, both outward actions and inner thoughts, that are harmful, if not as intensely dramatic as a drunken car wreck.
Of course there should be legal consequences for illegal behavior, but stiffening the penalties, or making drinking illegal just won't eliminate it, and might not do much to lessen it.
I disagree...I work with this on a daily basis... the reason Drinking is so popular is because of the easiness to do it... The harsh penalty is only applied when you are caught driving above the legal limit of .08, and sometimes that penalty is not enough considering they just killed someone with their vehicle. They take someones life all because they drank a few too many beers. Drinking is just as dangerous as taking a drug, even if you are not driving... it alters alters so many physical characteristics just like a narcotic...and yet, we can walk into a grocery store and buy it off the shelf. That is BS! I agree with the gospel principles play a huge role in preventing or rehabilitation. But having worked at the prison, and now on the road, it is easier said then done. I believe it goes beyond religion. I know alot of people that aren't religious but still have a great sense of judgement. They care about themselves and who they are. Someone who does not have these characteristics, must have religion or good people around them to keep them focused on what is important in life. Who you choose to hang out with, friends or family plays a vital role in ones behavioral pattern. Rehabilitation has nothing to do with the penalty they just received. Ask every inmate after he gets out of prison or jail if it was worth it...They will tell you NO! What hurts them is when they get out, they think they can socialize with the same group of people that helped get them into trouble in the first place. Rehabilitating comes from within. They have to care about what they did and want to prevent it from happening again. Religion is always found once incarcerated. they realize that they have no one else to turn to. Religion gives them peace and hope while inside and realize that they need it to survive in life. But once they get out, most think they can get by without it and fall right back into the same pattern of destruction. From a law enforcement standpoint: Alcohol will never be illegal to purchase(unless under age). But we should control how much is sold. We should not be allowed to purchase large quantities at the store. A bar tender should be required to monitor his bar and limit how much to certain people and even determine if one is too drunk to drive. There are things we can do to help prevent DUI. But it seems that people just don't care. A harsh penalty works whether you believe it or not. People are more afraid of paying a steep fine and getting arrested then accidently taking someones life. They understand the monetary value of such penalties, but have no way of knowing how horrible it is to take someones life until it is too late. There will always be those who will never learn and will always break the law no matter what we do to help them. -dave
After proof reading: The comment I made "Rehabilitation has nothing to do with the penalty just received" was meant to be sarcastic. I believe it does a play a role. For some it plays a major role and some a minor one. -dave
I do agree with both points made. My personal feeling is that the penalty should be tripled or quadrupled. It should be so harsh that people will be afraid to "mess up". I have talked with all the drunks I work with about these such topics and most of them have said that they agree with increasing the penalty. However, some have said 'heck no' to the idea. These individuals are the ones who obviously don't care for much in their lives. They people you might label as 'dirt bags'. I do agree with Daniel that too harsh a penalty can be unjust. I like the different points that have been made here.
From wikipedia under "Prohibition in the United States": A quote from a letter, written in 1932, by John D. Rockefeller, Jr., a wealthy industrialist states, "When Prohibition was introduced, I hoped that it would be widely supported by public opinion and the day would soon come when the evil effects of alcohol would be recognised. I have slowly and reluctantly come to believe that this has not been the result. Instead, drinking has generally increased; the speakeasy has replaced the saloon; a vast army of lawbreakers has appeared; many of our best citizens have openly ignored Prohibition; respect for the law has been greatly lessened; and crime has increased to a level never seen before."
Making alcohol illegal may nor may not be the right thing to do, but it will not prevent drinking. Cocaine, and other drugs are illegal, and while they are not as prolific as alcohol, they are a very serious problem.
I agree that gospel principles as an answer is easier said than done, but this also applies to the enforcement of laws that might be established. Easier to make a law than to enforce it. We need laws, yes, and must do what can be done to enforce them, but they need to be carefully chosen. I wonder if it might be more effective to increase resources toward other means of prevention rather than increase resources toward laws and their enforcement. I like your ideas in your closing paragraph, and these, while legally implemented, are along the lines of what I mean. Yet, these suggestions will only help those who drink alcohol who choose to go places that follow those laws, and nothing for those who find the places that will sell alcohol willy nilly.
I think we are in agreement about the effectiveness of penalties as a deterrent, we just said it differently. While in prison (while the punishment is in effect) it was in no way worth it. When out of prison (punishment over), and back in the old environment, the behavior returns (even if the person would rather not do it, but just can't seem to kick the habit). Therefore, there has to be something stronger than punishment to bring about a change. Something inside the person must change such that he or she is willing to make all the necessary changes that will prevent his or her return to the undesired behavior. All effective ways of going about this change are based on gospel principles, even if they are not packaged as gospel principles.
Rather than saying it goes beyond religion I think it goes to the heart of religion, especially the heart of the restored gospel. Caring for yourself and others, is at that heart.
I believe lives taken from drunken driving will never stop. I've had too many friends and know too many co-workers who just do not care. I've told them it's dangerous and thoughtless, that your judgment is impaired, and that lives can be taken. I once had a friend who asked me to drink with him and a group of girls on the upcoming weekend. I explained to him the dangers. His response, 'Everything has risks. Am I supposed to not drink because it's dangerous?' I couldn't convince him that the answer is yes. Another friend once said to me, 'don't be so safe! Drinking is a blast!' She's now dead. Killed with her friends in a head-on collision. Another friend was gone from school for two weeks to be in juvenile detention for drinking. The following week he was planning a snowboarding trip with his friends and collecting money for marijuana to take with them. People DO NOT CARE. They said I wasn't invited because I worry too much. One thing I do agree with is making alcohol illegal. Many times casual drinking leads to reckless drinking because judgement is impaired. There are those who do care, but have lost control because of alcohol.
8 comments:
It really is sickening to me to see all of these things happen. People just don't take driving seriously. It will never happen, but I wish they would make Alcohol illegal like a narcotic. Drinking serves no purpose, not even for a responsible drinker. But the stiff penalties are obviously not stiff enough. It just makes me sick!!!
I agree COMPLETELY!!
Drinking used to be illegal but it was kind of a bust as far as effectively inhibiting drinking goes. Stiff penalties won't help much in preventing it. Punishment is just not a very effective means of curtailing behavior. We, our society, tend to equate punishment with justice, but that is not often the case. Punishment, in the psychological use of the word, prevents or decreases a behavior from occurring again. But once the punishment is through being implemented, the behavior tends to occur again so long as there is a perceived reward for pursuing the activity. Putting people in jail, fines, etc. are all punishments to the extent that they curtail behavior, but people will often return to the behavior once the punishment is over with (out of jail) or out of mind (if you haven't had a speeding ticket in a while). We could stiffen penalties to the point of the death penalty or life imprisonment for drinking and driving, but would that be just? As with so many ills of society the answer most fully lies in the doctrines and principles of the gospel. As these are taken into individual lives people change their behavior. Drinking is an obvious outward behavior that is harmful, but we all have harmful behavior, both outward actions and inner thoughts, that are harmful, if not as intensely dramatic as a drunken car wreck.
Of course there should be legal consequences for illegal behavior, but stiffening the penalties, or making drinking illegal just won't eliminate it, and might not do much to lessen it.
I disagree...I work with this on a daily basis... the reason Drinking is so popular is because of the easiness to do it... The harsh penalty is only applied when you are caught driving above the legal limit of .08, and sometimes that penalty is not enough considering they just killed someone with their vehicle. They take someones life all because they drank a few too many beers. Drinking is just as dangerous as taking a drug, even if you are not driving... it alters alters so many physical characteristics just like a narcotic...and yet, we can walk into a grocery store and buy it off the shelf. That is BS! I agree with the gospel principles play a huge role in preventing or rehabilitation. But having worked at the prison, and now on the road, it is easier said then done. I believe it goes beyond religion. I know alot of people that aren't religious but still have a great sense of judgement. They care about themselves and who they are. Someone who does not have these characteristics, must have religion or good people around them to keep them focused on what is important in life. Who you choose to hang out with, friends or family plays a vital role in ones behavioral pattern. Rehabilitation has nothing to do with the penalty they just received. Ask every inmate after he gets out of prison or jail if it was worth it...They will tell you NO! What hurts them is when they get out, they think they can socialize with the same group of people that helped get them into trouble in the first place. Rehabilitating comes from within. They have to care about what they did and want to prevent it from happening again. Religion is always found once incarcerated. they realize that they have no one else to turn to. Religion gives them peace and hope while inside and realize that they need it to survive in life. But once they get out, most think they can get by without it and fall right back into the same pattern of destruction.
From a law enforcement standpoint:
Alcohol will never be illegal to purchase(unless under age). But we should control how much is sold. We should not be allowed to purchase large quantities at the store. A bar tender should be required to monitor his bar and limit how much to certain people and even determine if one is too drunk to drive. There are things we can do to help prevent DUI. But it seems that people just don't care. A harsh penalty works whether you believe it or not. People are more afraid of paying a steep fine and getting arrested then accidently taking someones life. They understand the monetary value of such penalties, but have no way of knowing how horrible it is to take someones life until it is too late. There will always be those who will never learn and will always break the law no matter what we do to help them.
-dave
After proof reading: The comment I made "Rehabilitation has nothing to do with the penalty just received" was meant to be sarcastic. I believe it does a play a role. For some it plays a major role and some a minor one.
-dave
I do agree with both points made. My personal feeling is that the penalty should be tripled or quadrupled. It should be so harsh that people will be afraid to "mess up". I have talked with all the drunks I work with about these such topics and most of them have said that they agree with increasing the penalty. However, some have said 'heck no' to the idea. These individuals are the ones who obviously don't care for much in their lives. They people you might label as 'dirt bags'.
I do agree with Daniel that too harsh a penalty can be unjust. I like the different points that have been made here.
From wikipedia under "Prohibition in the United States": A quote from a letter, written in 1932, by John D. Rockefeller, Jr., a wealthy industrialist states,
"When Prohibition was introduced, I hoped that it would be widely supported by public opinion and the day would soon come when the evil effects of alcohol would be recognised. I have slowly and reluctantly come to believe that this has not been the result. Instead, drinking has generally increased; the speakeasy has replaced the saloon; a vast army of lawbreakers has appeared; many of our best citizens have openly ignored Prohibition; respect for the law has been greatly lessened; and crime has increased to a level never seen before."
Making alcohol illegal may nor may not be the right thing to do, but it will not prevent drinking. Cocaine, and other drugs are illegal, and while they are not as prolific as alcohol, they are a very serious problem.
I agree that gospel principles as an answer is easier said than done, but this also applies to the enforcement of laws that might be established. Easier to make a law than to enforce it. We need laws, yes, and must do what can be done to enforce them, but they need to be carefully chosen. I wonder if it might be more effective to increase resources toward other means of prevention rather than increase resources toward laws and their enforcement. I like your ideas in your closing paragraph, and these, while legally implemented, are along the lines of what I mean. Yet, these suggestions will only help those who drink alcohol who choose to go places that follow those laws, and nothing for those who find the places that will sell alcohol willy nilly.
I think we are in agreement about the effectiveness of penalties as a deterrent, we just said it differently. While in prison (while the punishment is in effect) it was in no way worth it. When out of prison (punishment over), and back in the old environment, the behavior returns (even if the person would rather not do it, but just can't seem to kick the habit). Therefore, there has to be something stronger than punishment to bring about a change. Something inside the person must change such that he or she is willing to make all the necessary changes that will prevent his or her return to the undesired behavior. All effective ways of going about this change are based on gospel principles, even if they are not packaged as gospel principles.
Rather than saying it goes beyond religion I think it goes to the heart of religion, especially the heart of the restored gospel. Caring for yourself and others, is at that heart.
I believe lives taken from drunken driving will never stop. I've had too many friends and know too many co-workers who just do not care. I've told them it's dangerous and thoughtless, that your judgment is impaired, and that lives can be taken. I once had a friend who asked me to drink with him and a group of girls on the upcoming weekend. I explained to him the dangers. His response, 'Everything has risks. Am I supposed to not drink because it's dangerous?' I couldn't convince him that the answer is yes. Another friend once said to me, 'don't be so safe! Drinking is a blast!' She's now dead. Killed with her friends in a head-on collision. Another friend was gone from school for two weeks to be in juvenile detention for drinking. The following week he was planning a snowboarding trip with his friends and collecting money for marijuana to take with them. People DO NOT CARE. They said I wasn't invited because I worry too much. One thing I do agree with is making alcohol illegal. Many times casual drinking leads to reckless drinking because judgement is impaired. There are those who do care, but have lost control because of alcohol.
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